Anthony Fauci invokes fifth amendment in Covid origins hearing, repeatedly declining to answer questions – live

Key events

Summary

Hello, US politics blog readers, it’s been a lively morning on Capitol Hill and there is plenty more to digest, with news expected out of the Federal Reserve, the US Senate and the US president.

Here’s where things stand:

A closely-watched hearing in Washington, DC saw former top public health official Anthony Fauci grilled for about 3.5 hours in the Senate, on the during which he declined to answer any questions about the coronavirus pandemic, including on conspiracy theories about the origins of the virus.

One of Fauci’s attorneys was removed from the hearing at the insistence of the hearing’s instigator – Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul – when the lawyer, David Schertler, repeatedly tried to interject while his client remained tight-lipped.

During the hearing, some Republican senators aggressively attacked Fauci and made great efforts to besmirch his reputation, while some Democrats vociferously defended him as a public health hero.

Anthony Fauci, the former veteran director of the Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (Niaid), invoked the Fifth Amendment of the US constitution during a hearing before the US Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, refusing to answer any questions.

Republican Senator James Comer tried in vain to claim that Fauci would not be allowed to invoke his fifth amendment right to silence during the hearing, arguing unsuccessfully, ultimately, that having been given a preemptive pardon by Joe Biden during that president’s administration, he was not eligible.

Diary entries, released by Rand in an attempt to damage Fauci, show the former top US government science adviser’s growing disillusionment with Donald Trump in the first year of the Covid-19 pandemic, branding the president “rambling”, “crazy”, “desperate”, “bumbling”, “incompetent”, “an idiot”, “a true embarrassment”, “totally nuts” and “truly an obnoxious adolescent”.

US-Saudi strikes in Iraq push region into ‘uncharted territory’, analysts warn

US-Saudi strikes on Iran-backed militia in Iraq on Wednesday have pushed the region into “uncharted territory”, analysts have warned.

Amid stark warnings of a widening and increasingly “unpredictable” conflict, Riyadh’s decision to publicly join the US in striking sites associated with Iraq’s Popular Mobilisation Forces (PMF), killing at least 20 fighters, has added another complicating dimension to the war.

The US-Saudi strikes on Wednesday came after a brief lull in direct US attacks on targets in Iran, with Tehran’s allies in Yemen and beyond becoming increasingly drawn in.

Iran, meanwhile, launched missiles at US military installations in Jordan, in its first attack in the region since the pause in fighting with the US began.

After the tit-for-tat strikes, the pause in fighting appeared to be at an end, with Donald Trump saying the US would be “be hitting [Iran] hard”, even as he claimed the strikes in Iraq were coordinated with the government, despite Baghdad’s condemnation.

Dr Anthony Fauci, who served as a key adviser to Donald Trump and Joe Biden during the Covid-19 pandemic, has refused to answer questions at a high-profile congressional hearing, accusing Republican senator Rand Paul of having an “unhinged obsession” with him.

Fauci, the veteran former director of the Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (Niaid), invoked his constitutional right against self-incrimination when appearing before a Senate committee today.

Fauci said Paul had, who called the hearing, led a years-long investigation into him and the origins of the pandemic aimed at “embarrassing and intimidating me”, and ultimately landing him “behind bars”.

“Therefore, although it pains me to do so, because of the respect I have for the legislative branch of government and my decades-long record of cooperating with Congress, under the advice of my attorneys I will invoke my right under the fifth amendment of the constitution to refrain from answering your questions,” Fauci said in his opening statement.

Fauci, 85, served under seven US presidents and through numerous health crises, including the HIV crisis, Ebola outbreaks and the first coronavirus outbreak, called Sars-CoV-1. He became a household name overnight when the Covid-19 pandemic halted social life in 2020.

Quickly after opening statements, the hearing became a back-and-forth between Paul and Fauci. Paul grew visibly agitated as Fauci refused to answer, threatened the scientist with “repercussions”, and then tossed one of Fauci’s attorneys from the hearing room.

Members of the audience, which conspicuously included rightwing media figure Laura Ingraham, applauded.

While Republicans characterized their work as investigating “the origins of Covid-19 and risky taxpayer-funded life science research”, scientists have characterized the investigation as “vilification and harassment” of Fauci, who led Niaid for 38 years before retiring in 2022.

The hearing was a continuation of Paul’s years-long support of the so-called “lab leak” theory, or the idea that the Covid-19 pandemic began as a release from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a theory many virologists contend is improbable.

Since 2020, the “lab leak” theory has gained significant traction in Republican circles. In just one example, the White House published a treatise on the theory in April 2025 that served as a rationale for defunding the Institutes of Health (NIH).

A 2024 survey of virologists from the Global Catastrophic Risk Institute found that most believed the pandemic began as a so-called spillover event, or a virus jumping from an infected animal to a human. Similarly, a group of virologists argued in the Journal of Virology that the “preponderance” of evidence points to a spillover, even as the “lab leak” theory received outsized attention.

The hearing comes just days after Paul released what he described as Fauci’s “diary”, a more than 1,100-page document characterized as revealing Fauci’s inner conflicts about the lab leak theory. Scientists have said this is a normal part of scientific debate.

The diary also contained entries about Trump, who he advised closely during the early days of the pandemic. He described the president as “rambling”, “crazy”, “desperate”, “bumbling”, “incompetent”, “an idiot”, “a true embarrassment”, “totally nuts” and “truly an obnoxious adolescent”.

Gary Peters, a Democratic senator of Michigan, described the hearing as damaging to science and ignoring ongoing public health threats, such as the outbreak of the food-borne parasite cyclospora and measles, both at record highs.

“It’s attempting to turn one person into a scapegoat for a crisis that that hundreds of officials across the Biden and Trump administrations’ were responsible for handling,” said Peters, who did not ask Fauci any questions. “This is only going to deter other scientific experts from public service.”

In a statement reported by NBC News, Anthony Fauci’s lawyer, David Schertler, said in a statement that it was “outrageous” for chair Rand Paul to “exclude his counsel for making a legitimate legal point”.

“It proves the baseless and vindictive nature of this proceeding and Rand Paul’s personal vendetta against Dr Fauci,” Schertler said.

Paul had Schertler removed from the room after he repeatedly tried to interject after Paul had wrapped his questioning.

Senate committee to vote on whether to hold Fauci in contempt for refusal to testify

As the hearing comes to an end, chair Rand Paul says the committee will vote next week on whether to hold Anthony Fauci in contempt for his refusal to testify today.

In his closing statement, he asks, “Did [Fauci’s] actions lead to the largest man-made plague in human history? Are the millions dead the result of his experiments or experiments he approved?”

Fauci was escorted by police as he left the three-hour-long hearing. By some counts, he invoked the fifth amendment over 100 times.

After all members of the panel concluded their questions, Rand Paul gave lawmakers an extra five minutes each to ask Anthony Fauci further questions.

Republican senator Bernie Moreno, of Ohio, repeatedly asked Anthony Fauci if he knew what the fifth amendment said, before having one of his aides give him a small copy of the constitution.

Fauci had responded again that he was invoking his fifth amendment right.

“Do you feel like you’re in deep shit?” Moreno asked. He then asked Fauci to turn around and look at audience members who were critical of the government’s Covid response.

Dr Fauci, can you just turn around and look at the people behind you? You’re not willing to do that? It’s not a question … It’s a request. All you have to do is look up from your lawyers and look at the people who were absolutely shamed for saying what we know now to be the truth. You can’t even look at them?

Citing an alleged incident where a mom was arrested for not wearing a face mask at a football game, which he says spurred him to run for office, Moreno asks Fauci: “Who the fuck do you think you were for doing that?”

Democratic senator John Fetterman, of Pennsylvania, says he’s not here to attack or defend Fauci, and instead acknowledges his own family members who died from Covid and people he met who lost businesses through the pandemic.

Fetterman also acknowledged the struggle to “protect life and protect the economics” during the pandemic, and says he’s unsure if he even got it right.

He adds that he has a regret regarding the lab leak theory, which he says became seen as a “rightwing theory”. He says he hopes in the future, such theories won’t become so partisan.

GOP senator Josh Hawley, of Missouri, asks Anthony Fauci a series of questions including what day of the week it is, what color tie he’s wearing and the color of the carpet before them. Fauci repeats that he is invoking his fifth amendment right not to answer questions.

Hawley then asserts that Fauci doesn’t have a fifth amendment right since he has been pardoned, and accuses Fauci of “getting rich” during the pandemic. “This is about contempt for this body and contempt for the American people,” he says.

A reminder that in January last year, Joe Biden pardoned Fauci and other key figures, using the final days of his presidency to guard against what he said were “threats” by the incoming Trump administration.

According to the Constitution Center, accepting a presidential pardon means you lose the right to self-incrimination regarding the specific pardoned crimes, since you cannot be prosecuted for them any more.

However, it only applies to federal laws. You therefore retain the right to plead the fifth for actions that broke state laws, other unpardoned acts, or new offenses, such as perjury. Indeed, if you lie while testifying under oath about the pardoned event, you can still be charged with a new crime, perjury being one.

Rounding off his bombardment, Hawley accuses Fauci of becoming “a narcissist, and a megalomaniac and a liar.”

You’ve disgraced your profession by doing it … You’ve done more to harm science than anybody in my lifetime.

Andy Kim, a Democratic senator from New Jersey, said the grilling of Anthony Fauci and the cuts to public health will have a “chilling effect” on scientists and public service. He also acknowledged that there is “nothing perfect” about pandemic response in a crisis.

“Researchers that I talk to who are now either leaving the country or considering leaving the country to do their work because of the sheer unpredictability of America,” Kim said. “These attacks upon Dr Fauci – it’s not just about him. It’s sending signals to others, others who are thinking about serving our country, our scientists, our doctors, our healthcare professionals, our researchers, trying to show to them that if you don’t get in line with the politics, that you will also potentially be subject to attacks.”

Rick Scott, a Republican senator from Florida, questioned Anthony Fauci over his communications with other figures involved in the Covid-19 response and records retention concerns after he called Fauci a “villain”.

“To many Americans who lost family members, who lost trust in our federal government, you’re not a hero,” Scott said to Fauci. “Unfortunately, you’re a villain. You made yourself the story and abandoned the American people to serve your own ego.”

Fauci declined to answer any of Scott’s questions, just as he has for the rest of the questions in the hearing given his invocation of his fifth amendment rights.

Senators continue to ask Fauci questions as medical adviser pleads the fifth

Despite Anthony Fauci’s refusal to answer questions, the senators on the committee are all going through questions and remarks.

Republican senator James Lankford of Oklahoma went through the pandemic’s effects on children, noting that many children missed their measles vaccines because of shutdown rules during the height of the pandemic. He also asked about the lab leak theory and research in Wuhan, China.

Richard Blumenthal, a Democratic senator from Connecticut, called the pandemic some of the “darkest days” in history but said the hearing was an attempt to vilify Fauci based on preconceived notions.

“Republicans are eager to rebrand you as a villain, in order to distract from their own failure to protect Americans from soaring healthcare costs, they’ve been rising astronomically in the last couple of years, and from unsafe food, which has caused cyclospora to spread, and resurgent measles as a result of the anti-vaccine policy,” Blumenthal said.

Other members of the committee are now attempting to question Anthony Fauci, who has declined to answer questions based on the advice of legal counsel based on his fifth amendment rights.

Ron Johnson, a Republican senator from Wisconsin, elevated unproven claims about the efficacy and safety of the Covid-19 vaccine and treatments such as ivermectin. Fauci declined to answer any of Johnson’s questions. He also claimed Fauci “lied to his own diary”.

Democratic senator Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire thanked Fauci for his service and went through the ways the Trump administration has decimated public health response.

“It must be enormously frustrating to know that this hearing is designed to entrap you,” Hassan told Fauci.

Top Democrat warns Fauci becoming 'scapegoat' for pandemic response

Gary Peters, the ranking Democrat on the committee, said in closing that the Anthony Fauci hearing today “does real damage” by turning one person into a “scapegoat” for a pandemic that hundreds of officials hold responsibility for.

Peters noted that Fauci has faced repeated death threats.

“This is only going to unfortunately deter other scientific experts from public service, to understand that this is what they would have to go through as they provide their advice to us,” Peters said.

Anthony Fauci's attorney removed from room after request by Rand Paul

An attorney for Anthony Fauci, seated beside him at the hearing room table, repeatedly tried to interject after Rand Paul wrapped his questioning, drawing the ire of Paul, who eventually directed security to remove the attorney.

Paul said the attorneys were allowed to be in the room, but not to testify, and the attorney was directed not to sit at the table but did so anyway.

“This is the way Anthony Fauci wants to be remembered for a lawyer not listening to the rules,” Paul said before directing security to remove the attorney. “Let the record state that Dr. Fauci will still have the advice of the other half a dozen attorneys that he brought along today.”

After asking repeated questions to Anthony Fauci over lab activities in Wuhan, China, US senator Rand Paul said there “would be repercussions” for Fauci’s refusal to answer questions based on his Fifth Amendment rights.

“The chairman has denied your assertion of privilege and directed you to answer. But you nonetheless refuse and stand on privilege despite the existence of the pardon,” Paul said referring to Joe Biden’s preemptive pardon of Fauci. “The committee will have to consider after this hearing what appropriate action should be taken against you for the failure to testify after being directed to do so. It’s against the law to obstruct an investigation of Congress. There will be repercussions to your refusal to testify today.”

Senator Rand Paul is now questioning Anthony Fauci, who is repeatedly responding that he is declining to answer based upon his rights under the Fifth Amendment.

Early on in the questioning, Paul noted there was a red folder on Fauci’s table in the hearing room with a copy of a piece of US code that makes it a crime for a witness appearing under subpoena, as Fauci is, to refuse to answer questions pertinent to an inquiry.

“Do you have that in front of you?” Paul asked Fauci.

Fauci responded that he was declining to answer based on the Fifth Amendment.

“Let the record show that the witness has refused to answer whether there’s a folder in front of him based on his Fifth Amendment right,” Paul said.

Fauci invokes fifth amendment right not to answer questions

Anthony Fauci, the former veteran director of the Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (Niaid), invoked the Fifth Amendment during a hearing before the US Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

During his long history in the government, he many times appeared before committee’s for hearings and respects the value of oversight.

“However, given Senator Paul’s obvious obsession with calling for my prosecution, his repeated slanderous comments about me, and recently his publicly releasing my unredacted personal diary aimed at embarrassing and intimidating me, the only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason he is calling me before this committee is to get me to say something, anything, that could vindicate his repeated public pledges that I end up in his words, quote, behind bars, unquote,” Fauci said.

“Any reasonable person who has followed his unhinged obsession with me would readily come to the same conclusion,” he said.

“Therefore, although it pains me to do so, because of the respect I have for the legislative branch of government and my decades-long record of cooperating with Congress under the advice of my attorneys, I will invoke my right under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution to refrain from answering your questions.”